We are at the Biodiversity Park, Gurgaon and my guest today is this amazing woman, Latika Thukral, founder of I am Gurgaon, which is the organization which has, which has created and maintaining this beautiful park of native species and creating a forest out here. So Latika, welcome to our interview series. Could you share a little bit about yourself to start with? So how did this all start? We've been living in Gurgaon forever, now it's nearly 20 years and seven years back when we started I am Gurgaon, we felt there was a need to do something to Gurgaon because having moved in from Delhi, this place was growing in a very haphazard manner.

And we were aware of this piece of land, like all other forest land. We suggested to the commissioner that time, Mr. Khullar, this was in 2007? This is in 2009-10. And he got very excited.

He didn't know the status of this land, but he really got excited and he said, let's do it. And that's how this whole thing started. We started to get the boundary wall, walking paths, cycling paths.

This forest has not even closed for a single day. So what you see or what everybody sees, it's a forest in making. And it started with just 5000 saplings, which was done by, which was planted by forest department.

All of a sudden, we came to this idea of planting million trees in Gurgaon. And then after Mr. Khullar moved away, Mr. Sudhir Rajpal was the commissioner. And he said, if you want to plant million trees, why not in the biodiversity park? This whole thing fell in our lap.

We didn't know how to do it. None of us had the, we were not from the background of plantation or all of us are corporate people. We said, what do we do? So we started to figure out, we started to reaching out to people who are experts in this field.

And this is how we reached Pradeep Kishan. And because we had heard about him and he's one of the experts on Arachnid species. Pradeep Kishan, one of the most iconic books if you want to read about.

Absolutely. So having said that, we said we want to do the right way. We reached out to him and he referred us to Vijay Das Manna, who came on board as a consultant to us and a project leader.

And it's easy to say that let's make a forest or we can plant. But where do you get those native species? Nobody in the country was really growing these species. I mean, the best we could get was about 30 species in Jodhpur and Udaipur forest nursery.

And that's it. And we started with this whole thing about creating a list. And this list was created by looking at the gazetteers and all from British time.

What were the species available? And what do we call Arachnid species? So we got through this list and realized that there were some of 250 species, which includes, of course, shrubs. So what was this land when you started in 2009? Okay, this had become a mining site. And completely aborted.

And there was nothing. If you look at before and after photographs now, it had totally become a deluded site. You really needed to revive it.

And I'm guessing full of Velayati Kikar that time? It was full of Velayati Kikar. Just like all the other places around. Yes, absolutely.

It was only full of Velayati Kikar. So our first step was to remove Velayati Kikar. And some part of the Velayati Kikar was removed by the Forest Department.

The Haryana Forest Development. The Forest Department now? No, Haryana Forest Development. HFDC, not Forest Department.

So MCG had given them to plant some 5000 saplings. And they were not native. So they did not plant native species.

They did a mix of all. But they did probably roadside trees. Yeah, absolutely.

So you also have a pilkhanth and you also have all kinds of... Sure, that happens with all horticulture departments. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if today you ask me, I understand the word native.

But when we started, for us native was Nihim also and Pargat also and Gulmahar. Everything was native. But today, our definition of native has changed.

And native to a particular place which does not need so much of looking after. It grows on its own, it gets feed. The whole ecology changes when you plant native species.

And that's what one is realizing because the bird population has increased. The butterflies, the insects and everything has started. Tell us, how do native trees enhance the flora and fauna? So I'll go back to it.

How did we then decide to get native saplings? So when we started, the issue was where to get those saplings. And at that stage, the first reach was the Zodepur Jodhpur when we got 30 species. And that also was not enough.

So we started. And today, I think the nursery is the backbone. We have about 180 odd species.

Growing here? Yes. Two nurseries? We have two nurseries now. We started with one.

And also we are very fortunate. This all would not have been possible without the help of MCG, the owner of this land. But besides them, the corporates of Gurgaon.

The whole project is funded by corporates. How many corporates? Over 45. How much, if you don't mind sharing? So each year, we try to plant about 15,000 to 16,000 saplings.

We charge now Rs. 650 per sapling. And we maintain it for three years.

And over the years, our success rate is also 90%. 90%? I thought it was 40% when I last read the article. No, it must be an old article.

Well, the first year. Oh, the first year. It went up from 90% with Haryana government or HLTC, probably to 40%.

And the first year, we did struggle because we had not planted native species. So native species are hardier, is it? They are hardier, you don't require so much of water. We don't need to water them every day.

And they kind of learn to survive on their own. So we don't water every day. We today have over 80,000 saplings in the park.

And I mean, I don't like to say it's a park, it's a forest in Peking. But yes, it's called a Rangipahi Dynasty Park. So we are trying to, I mean, what we're trying to now do is maintain it for three years.

And afterwards, we kind of realize that they survive on their own. And with that 90% survival rate, the replantation which takes place in monsoon is restricted to just 10% of the old stock. How many trees are there right now? It's over 80,000.

Over 80,000 at which point in time? Also what happens is when you protect an area, a lot of in-growth which comes up. So, you know, the grazing has stopped over the years, the grazing has stopped. And that has also led to... Seeds come out and they start spreading.

Absolutely. So there is, you know, automatic regeneration. And also what we have tried to do is... So what is this? This is called Goya Kher.

Okay. It's a shrub. It's also native.

Of course, everything is native. And what you can also see is that this must be unique in a forest that we have drip irrigation. And again, fortunate enough that there is a corporate who funded us and we could do it.

It wasn't easy to do this drip irrigation, but today... And it really helps. It helps in many ways. One is that the growth is better because the water comes in at a, you know, slow speed.

And secondly, it is reducing the cost of water and labor. And what sort of water is this? Is this fresh water that comes here? Do you have a bore well? Okay. So we do it both ways.

We are not able to get everything from outside. We do use 50% water from the bore well, but we also are making an effort. I mean, we get water from sewage treatment plant, which is the STP of DLF.

And they've been kind enough to give us free water. We send our tankers to get it. So that's an expense which we have to take every day.

But it's still worth it because when you're doing the right thing, we feel that you should try and use sewage treated water. If we can get more, we would be very happy. There is no way to pipe it here.

There isn't a way. I mean, I think they're thinking of figuring, finding out. But as this park is maturing, we might even not need water in years to come because it should grow on its own.

We don't need to water after, you know, three years. And besides, in a place like this, it's just not about maintenance. There is a hell of a lot of work which comes up with it, which is, you know, I mean, we have put in a lot of effort in taking out Vilayati Kikar process, which is really flora.

There is in last six years, I think we have taken out close to 90%, if not more. Yes, it's pretty much disappeared. Yeah, slowly, slowly.

And we've been also using the Vilayati Kikar to make the, if you can see this. This is to protect our saplings from eel guys. Yeah, yeah.

So now they've grown, so it's not a worry. So these Vilayati Kikar is like your tree guard. Yeah.

So if you go at the back, every sapling is, you know, kind of. Thoda humare listeners ke liye, audience ke liye, tell us about Vilayati Kikar, ki kya khamiya hai? Okay, so Vilayati Kikar, which is also called Prosopis juliflora, yeh, it's a pest. It is not, it doesn't belong to India.

It came in with Britishers. And 1908, I believe, I read in Pradeep's book. Yeah, 1908 and Britishers had spread the seeds.

And this was, I mean, if you look at it from their point of view, this was to earmark the forest land. Yeah, they wanted to make the president's house, the president look over a green forest, instead of a brown forest. Absolutely.

And that was an easy way to say that, okay, we have protected our land. But what it's done is it's spread like a wildfire. And now it's, if you, I mean, people feel very excited.

People feel very excited about this industry. But it doesn't allow other species to grow. And it has dual roots.

Dual roots? Yeah, so it takes, which means double roots, which takes a lot of water out of the ground. Okay. So, and also doesn't allow anything else to grow.

I've heard its roots are also, has an acidic sort of nature or something. I don't know, I mean, I'm not just so sure about it. But what I understand is that as you keep removing them and plant, replant them, replant with the native species, the whole ecology of this place has changed.

And it is, what we hear from birders, again, I'm not a birder and I'm not an expert, they say that it has become one of the most important birding sites in India. So this is just in five, six years. So it feels good because we see a lot of birders coming here.

And some of the rare species are also seen. Wonderful. Yeah, so.

There are 250 species of birds. I think it's about 180, which, yeah, 160, 170, which is, yeah. Wow.

Which you have seen here over the, over the. We should do an interview with a birder here next time and then find out. Absolutely, and in fact, we, in next two months, we will have a booklet out on common bird seen in this place.

Wonderful. So that's also ready to be. I recently on one of the Facebook posts saw a jackal catching a deer.

Yeah, right, right, right, right. It was here only. Here only.

So there are now jackals in this place. It is there. Jackal, civet cat, we have monitor lizard.

Wow. And you see a lot of insects and reptiles. So snakes during monsoon.

Yes, even I've seen a snake sitting on one of the trees during the monsoons. You see a lot of snakes during monsoon time. So I think, and also what we have tried to do is that just not plant trees.

So we've also added a lot of shrubs because the trees are going to take its own time to grow. They are, they have their own time by which they will really take growth. So meanwhile, we have got undergrowth story.

So if you see all these are shrubs and once the trees come in, once the trees come in, there will be a survival of the fittest and they'll figure out which one, which one will take. Yeah, it looks beautiful. There's lots of grass.

I remember coming here many years ago, five, six years, I guess. It used to be barren. Completely.

Yes, it used to be. And also, also I think what we have tried to do is to not cut anything. The only thing we cut from here is Congress grass.

And if Lentana comes up at times and that's it. Nothing else. Lentana, Congress grass.

And if there are these Prosopis juliflora, which is of course. And it keeps coming. Prosopis juliflora also, if you don't take out from the root, it keeps coming.

So you have to keep that as a maintenance. Just a deviation, what is this? It's an amphitheater. This amphitheater was made while we started this project.

And it can take about 700 people. I'm sorry, there you can see these fencing all over. Which wasn't there earlier.

No, it has been done because people jump in there and they break. There are seating out there and they kind of break it. So, I mean, we have a lot of vandalism issues out here.

I mean, the bins lying around, they will break it. So, we don't know what to do. We have to live with it.

It's a sad reality. That's yeah, sad reality. It's part of the country or our country in general sometimes.

And we have also grown 40 species of grasses. Okay. So then there are trees.

There are shrubs. You said 200. No, we have a list of 250.

Which includes trees, shrubs and grasses. And grasses. And grasses, okay.

And so how many grasses? About 40 species we have added into the park. And what are grasses, if you could show us something. So, this is a grass.

Those are grasses. Some of them could have been growing on their own. In fact, I'll take you to, there is an area which is full of sacrum grass.

And where you will find beaver birds. So, you know, you kind of not touching anything here unless required. We're leaving the areas the way they are.

We're only doing intervention by planting. There is something somewhere around. There is something for water conservation also.

Is that over there? No, it's here. If you go that side, there is a pond. We have created a pond.

Also because it used to be a mining site. So, water does collect during monsoon. We have experimented with two ponds.

One has done well. The second one didn't do. But the other places also, some of the other areas, the water stays for a couple of months.

In monsoon time, when it collects in monsoon time. But then it dries off. It evaporates.

So, what is this? They're using cans and pipes. You know, again, we have made our life a little difficult. We try to water through cans.

The reason for that is we don't want any water to be wasted. With the pipe, the water will get wasted. Because they are spread all over.

And unfortunately, this reminds me whenever I go to the Lutyens Delhi. There are these black pipes. Little tracts of water being wasted.

Burns my heart. Absolutely. So, one of the reasons we don't want any water to be wasted.

Secondly, we also want to measure how much water we get. So, they know that if it is a shrub, we need to give five litres. Like this one.

A small shrub. This is a tree, so they would be given more. But like a small shrub, we will give five litres.

And that's good enough. For how long? Every time we tell them to do it. Because it doesn't need that kind of water.

But how long? When will this tree get water next time? We just keep this as is for three years. We will water every sapling for three years. How frequently? In summer months, it's about once a week.

And there can be four times also if it's really, really hot. But, I mean, once in four days. But generally once a week.

And in winter, we go up to ten to twelve days. And if it rains, of course, then. So, you're trying to do everything.

Then we will stop watering. So, now we know that the trees don't need watering. Because these must be the new ones we are adding to the shrubs.

So, this is a continuous process you keep adding. Some trees have grown. Was this planted by you? Actually, this wasn't planted.

It was already there. There are some bigger trees here. This is Sesham and all these are being planted.

And again, Sesham is not really native to... Oh, is it? It's all over Haryana. Yeah. Also, what happens with Sesham is, one, it spreads very fast.

I mean, the seedlings spread. And secondly, people will come and cut them. So, we have to be careful that we don't overdo on Sesham.

Which people don't realize. And also, we are trying not to do monoculture. And if you really see, it's a mix of it.

And each area has different kinds of plantations. It's not... Take us through some of this. That's Sesham.

That was... Take us through some of the... This is, I think, Kher. Kher. And if we go up, there is the one now which is... There is a hill which is full of dhau.

Dhau, again, is a very... Dhau or dhok. Which is the Mangarpani special. Yeah, Mangarpani.

Like, this is the dhok. This is a small sapling. Dhok has this thing about... If a... Vijay was telling me, if a cow or something eats it, it will spread.

Yes. So, if it doesn't allow you to grow, it just spreads. And it is supposed to be the strongest wood in India.

Oh. Yeah. Very hardy.

Very, very hardy. Because it grows next to rocks and... Very, very hardy. On slopes of hills.

Absolutely. So, this is... This is also one of our oldest plantations. This would be about four years old.

This area is about four years old. Beautiful, right? So, every area has a different time of plantation. And some are one year old, some are five years old.

And this is about four years old. I mean, you know, I don't remember when I was... I've become a little irregular here, but... Earlier you could see a lot of... You could see till there. Surface.

Yeah, and you could see the surface as well as you can't see. It's just covered with grasses and... You can see the dots. Whether the trees are taking longer to come up... Or they will take their own time to... You could see dots.

...hide. Exactly. But they are there. Now, it's too forest.

I guess in monsoons, it will all be lush green. We'll come back and shoot this in monsoons. This looks absolutely different.

Beautiful. Just looks different. So, those are the water tankers, is it? Yeah.

So, we have a full... What do you call the... Factory out here. We have our own two tractors. Four tankers.

All tankers. Funded by the... By corporates. So, this whole... And our own trolley, everything.

Everything is thanks to... Corporate funding. ...corporates who felt that this is a possibility. Which you and your team have gone and raised all the money for.

You know, actually, first two years, we really had to... Actually, first year, friends and relatives and... Mainly friends and relatives who came and helped. And our spouses, their companies and all that, they came and helped. But now, word of mouth is... Threading.

And last two, three years, we don't really need to go and look for funds. They come. Wonderful.

So, you were... You were a banker. Did you quit to do this? Or did you quit? How did that happen? I quit because I wanted to. I had spent 18 years with Citibank.

And I quit to spend more time with my boys. Who were 10 and 12 at that time. And Anne, in the process, wanted to do something.

She didn't know. And I wanted to do something to save Gurgaon. This much I knew.

But didn't know how it will happen. What will I do? And I think, in a year's time after I quit, three of us started I Am Gurgaon. Swanzil, Swanzil Kapoor, Ambika Agarwal and I. We set up I Am Gurgaon.

And again... Now, it's a bigger team? It's a much bigger team. We were about 8-10 of us who kind of... And then there's a team which came together. But now we have dedicated people who are all volunteers.

So all of us are volunteers. This is again an NGO where each one of us is giving time without monetary benefit. And we have a few people, a couple of people who are hired.

All staff at the Biodiversity Park is of course paid. Of course, I mean, I guess project directors, people who work, who do the digging, they all have to be paid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

This is part of their job. Yes, absolutely. So how big is the area? It's about 350 acres.

Oh, yeah, okay. And I've even read somehow that, you know, there is this... I've actually heard Vijay saying that his dream is that somewhere between Sariska and Delhi, it's a continuity of the rigs. Absolutely.

Can you share what that vision is about? I mean, even forget about that. Gurgaon has so much of area like this. I wish we can spread a similar experiment.

All around. All around. I mean, there are another thousand acres which we can change it into a place like this.

Change it right here. Yes, absolutely. But of course, there are roads cutting all of that.

And have different status. Some belong to Forest, some belong to MCG. And it's also an intent of the government what they want to do.

So is this a forest? This is a Gair Mumkin Pahar. This land belongs to Municipal Corporation of Gurgaon. And they agreed to experiment on this.

And I think we are just fortunate that a place like this has come up with Gurgaon. So is this, you know, it's very difficult to change the label of a forest land and make it, you know, change it to a non-forest land now in India with the tough environment rules. So is this declared a forest or no? Or is it likely to be? This is called a biodiversity park.

It is called. And it's a forest in making. But I personally feel that, you know, I mean, the government also has an attachment now to it.

And they wouldn't play around with a place like this. But no, it doesn't have a forest status in that sense. Would you like that to happen? Of course.

Of course. We want this place to be protected totally. And what we want is, I mean, we have, I am Gurgaon is going to be taking care of this place for next two or three years more.

You know, because the plantation will be over. And what after that? So we have a contract with Municipal Corporation of Gurgaon for eight years. Starting in 2012.

And of which four or five years are over. So two to three years more. We, I mean, you know, I feel that we need to institutionalize this place now.

It cannot be left for MCG to decide or an officer in MCG to decide what should be done at this place. Because I don't think people really are understanding what is happening. This is in true sense of forest in making.

And it cannot be treated like a park. It cannot have saying that, oh, you know, a place like this has come. We must monetize it.

Or we must have a cafe. Or we must have a night safari or whatever. It isn't.

It is unique. It's a city forest. And it needs that kind of treatment.

Where we need to be sensitive to the fact that today there are birds who have made this their home. 180 species. And birds have made their home.

And will they be affected if we do more construction or if we make a cafe or something like this. So it's something I think environmentalists can suggest to the government or to people that what should be done. You know, it should not be.

So I feel it should be institutionalized. There are tracks here. There are cycling tracks, walking tracks along with the forest.

Just that. And maybe just leave it at that. And allow it to evolve and become whatever it is.

So after these two years, you'll stop planting anymore? So we will stop. I don't think we will need to plant after two to three years. We only now do replacement.

At this stage, we are only working on replacement. So this year we will have a space for another five, six thousand. By and large, we would have planted all across the park.

And so then it's what you're trying to, what you're also saying then is that it's probably become a self-regenerating. Absolutely. As well as we will, you know, I mean, you're finding new species.

So you're growing new species every year. Like this year, we have added three, four more species in our nursery. Which hadn't been.

Which hadn't been. So they will come into this place. So that part is still.

Actually, this is the place where it caught fire. The last few days back. Oh, right.

That's why it's all burnt. Yeah. So this place caught fire a while back.

Luckily, the damage has not been that much. In fact, you know, what is interesting is that Dhow species. Dhow saplings, which had gone totally burnt out.

Are sprouting. Oh my. So how big is this area now? This is about 350 acres.

It touches the Delhi. There is a forest land that side also. So it touches that forest land.

Yeah, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

That's probably the boundary wall. And you can see that wall. Yes.

As well, you can see that Mandir. That's the first one. The first one.

The first one. And that is, till that point, is this part of Biodiversity Park. And you can see those green tanks.

Yeah. That's where we store water. And here there are the buildings, the DLF buildings.

Phase three. Then you see the metro. The metro.

And that's again the Delhi, Kitorni. You never have a sense otherwise of how big 350 acres is. And you can see, like you said, you can see the green.

So that's all Vilayati Kikar. And people, you know, from the metro, they get to see the Vilayati Kikar. And they get very excited.

What a green place. And you know, once you see land under the Vilayati Kikar, it's actually... In fact, in a large part of the Budha Jayanti Park and even the Sanjay Vanu, it's all Vilayati Kikar, only in the inside parts where there has been protection and all, there are different species. But it's all Vilayati Kikar and hardly anything grows out of it.

That's true. Pradeep told us that there was a grass, this heese. This is the only hardy grass which sort of stays, but otherwise everything dies.

And Karonda and all the most other... Yeah, they also, I think, kind of, I have seen a lot of Karonda near Vilayati Kikar. So like you can see all these keep coming on their own and we will not cut anything. So they will come on their own, they will grow on their own.

Wild grasses, wild flowers. So what is the status now of Vilayati Kikar? Is it now recognized by the government as an invasive species? Can we actually... Yeah, they understand. Yeah, yeah, so I think what I believe is that there is a high court order which says, which was, I think, published by C.R. Babu.

C.R. Babu had filed that case where they are saying that if you take out Vilayati Kikar, you have to replace it with something. But you are legally allowed now to take it out. Yes, I think so.

So we should get access to that. Yes, that's what I have seen. Because we have taken out everything and HFDC had done it.

And I think forest department also is now trying to work on taking out Vilayati Kikar to replace it with native species. I remember once, several years ago, I am talking about 2007-8 sometime, talking to Sunita Narayan at Centre for Science and Environment. And I had just gotten to know about Vilayati Kikar that time.

I spoke to her that it is a devastating tree. Sunita had said it is. But what it has also done is solved India's fuel wood crisis.

That's true. All over India, it grows so fast. Also, it is useful to have it where you want to hold the water together.

I mean, in the sense, it has its own advantages. Yes, I guess to hydrogenate the soil at least to where it is already devastated like it was here. Then you start taking it out.

Absolutely. And you are replacing it and you are treating it differently. But I wish we can do a similar thing in other areas in Gurgaon.

So, that's where I was going to next. So, what is the potential of now taking this? After two years, this is done. I don't think it will be done in two years.

It needs another five to six, five to seven years. And also, a place like this, like if you go to Amadav National Park or any of the national parks, it will reach to that status in that sense. It needs intervention.

It needs care. It needs a lot of, like during monsoon, we will realize that a lot of Congress grass and others will come in with, pests and all, which have to be taken out. So, there is a continuous work which needs to be done.

Of course, I mean, Jim Corbett, half the job of the Forest Department, I don't know, maybe I am exaggerating, but they should take out lantana. Absolutely. So, you know, we did a ward footing lantana at one year.

This is two years back or three? Two years back. Lantana was spreading really like in a crazy way. So, we on ward footing removed lantana.

And today, if we see one lantana, you know, shrub, we kind of don't let it be. So, you know, you are doing, you are spending a lot of, like everybody says that you have 650 rupees per sapling. It's just not about watering.

It's just not about maintaining. It is more than that. It is a hell of a lot of work besides that.

Plus, it has, you have fencing around it. In last five years, we have evolved a lot. But in initial years, I mean, we have some bit of relief in last two years.

But till we still have fence being cut on a daily basis. Oh, by the villagers. Or people around, cattle grazing, they will put their goats in.

So, we have two people whose job is only to look at repairing fencing on a daily, daily basis. Every day there is a new place from where these, you know, the animals have been. So, that land beyond the temple also is free? It belongs to Delhi government.

It's a forest land. It has a forest status. So, there is a potential of extending this into Delhi? Absolutely.

I mean, you can see that wall. Now, that wall has come to, you know, break between Delhi and… Delhi forest land and now this forest. I wish we can… So, what can be done over there? You can extend this and it can become… How? By planting similar species.

No, I know. But how do you approach the Delhi government? So, we have tried doing it and I think this government under AAP has also. But, you know, it doesn't work unless somebody really, really wants to do it.

You know, we've just been lucky. I think there was some God intervention that Gurgaon has got a place like this. And we were fortunate to be able to work on this and get funding from corporate.

It's not easy for government to do this. It's just not easy for them to do it. So, Mangar, just a few days back by the Haryana government, the new Khattar government has been declared a no construction zone.

That's been a blessing about 550-600 acres and about double that periphery area. Has been. So, that's not too far from here.

No. And there is probably continuity of forest land from here until there. Do you think we can actually give continuity from here other than the roads? I wish.

I wish. It's not difficult to do it. It's just not difficult to do it.

So, you have to put more pressure on the Haryana government to actually allocate it to IIM Gurgaon? Well, it doesn't matter who they allocate to. It could be forest doing it. Today, there is an experiment which has worked.

So, it can be replicated. We would be very happy to take on more. More than anything else, we've kind of now, in last five years, understood how it is to be done.

We will make less mistakes. We have gone through our own share of mistakes also. So, we will do it a better job.

And we have all the infrastructure in place to be able to do it. We have to set this up. So, it's probably time to now start pressurizing both the Delhi and Haryana government.

I think they are also wanting to do it. Forest department is looking to take up more areas and plant. And what is nice is that they are talking to you.

So, they are not treating you like an outsider. Oh, you guys don't know it. We are collaborating.

We are talking about it. All the time. All the time.

And the forest department, at least at this point in time, we have a good officer, a conservative forester, Mr. Sinha. And he is a good officer who is very proactive, who is interacting with you. Like last time, he had a meeting.

He had got all his range officers to come and look at our nursery. And we are not talking to each other. Where do you get your seeds? And where can we get seeds? And you know, things like that.

Which is very, very nice. And I think that's the only way it can function. Because we have the passion and they have the areas.

And we can together make this a reality. But it's not easy. It's a very, very, very tough job.

There are people who did not believe in the project like this. They couldn't understand what we were trying to do. Initially, everybody used to stop us and ask us, Why are you not planting neem and jaggery and mango tree? And you literally had to go through the same story again.

What we are trying to do. And initially, we also did not have saplings. I mean, in the sense that big saplings.

They were small. They were growing in our nursery. Today, we are in a different state.

Our saplings are bigger. We have lots of species. And it's visible.

So, people do understand. People come in on a daily basis. Understand what has got done in a place like this.

But initially, we were questioned a lot. And newspaper articles every now and then trying to rubbish us. Which happens now also.

So, it's okay. Now also? In the sense that now, because it's become what it has become. Everybody wants to take control and make it into something else.

But we have to keep a vision. Personally, if you ask me. I think we should have a vision.

We have a vision for Mayodiversity Park. That vision needs to be documented with the MCG. It needs to be institutionalized.

So, you institutionalize. You say, hey, listen. Next 10 years, we are going to be looking at it as a forest.

And we will only do what is good for the forest. That's a tough one. It's not easy for anybody to do.

Tell me, help me with this. What does really institutionalize mean? So, you are now out. It is 2-3 years later.

Whether we are there or not. We are just an executing body. We are not owners of this place.

What does institutionalize mean? That you protect the fences. What I mean to say about institutionalize is to set up a body. Which is, you give it a status.

Which could be a heritage site. It could be a conservation. Or convert it to a forest land.

Or a forest conservation site. Whatever you want to do it. And have people in the team.

In the team means, you form a committee. Which has experts from the government. From civil society.

From environmentalists. So that there is a proper plan for a place like this. Continuity.

If nothing else, at least maintenance. Fencing. See, all that will happen.

But, like for MCG commissioner. Each MCG commissioner. So the biggest challenge what you have in the government.

Is that every officer who comes in. Has a plan in mind. And each officer wants to do different from what other has done.

The one officer will want to do is a night safari. The other guy will want to make it into a scorpio park. Or they want to get alligators out.

So we have heard all kinds of things which can be done. Or we want to make it into a park. Or we want to make it into an Ayurvedic center.

Or we will put camps out here. No, it isn't. It's a forest in making.

It's a city forest. Leave it for your children. They would have never known that there is something called native species.

Today we are getting schools to come in. And participate in this whole plantation. We get them to learn about the species which are planted here.

We get corporates to come and plant. So there is a huge amount of interaction of civil society in this place. And our next generation will know what it means to... They will see a true forest.

They will see a new forest. They will know one day that in 10 years these will be huge trees. Absolutely.

And they will know what is a native forest mean. It is not trees which are coming from outside. Generally if you know, everybody is growing ornamental trees.

Whole of Gurgaon is growing ornamental trees. So I think it's something for the next generation. So we are here at one of the two nurseries.

So let's go in and talk us through what is growing. They look like big saplings now. Now they are about 2-3 years old.

Today we have an opportunity to plant bigger saplings. Which we didn't have in the first 2-3 years. And obviously when the saplings are bigger they kind of survive better.

So what we do is that we will go to the other nursery. In that nursery we put seeds and from there the saplings come out. And then they are moved from smaller bags to bigger bags to bigger bags and to bigger bags.

This is huge. Never seen saplings this big. You would have seen but they would cost a lot.

I mean not saplings. So you keep moving them. So you actually take them out of the smaller bags and put them in the bigger bags.

That's how the movement takes place. Because normally otherwise the roots are all congested. So now we are ready to plant them.

This is Karonda. What all is here? This is Karonda. This is Harshingar.

Harshingar. Beautiful smelling flowers. This is Dhow.

I thought it was ornamental once again. Yes, that's Dhow. Last one year we have been very lucky with Dhow.

They say that the conversion rate or the survival rate of seeds to saplings is about 10%. Very low. Very very low.

But we have done well. We have taken it up to 30-40%. We have done something right.

Which we know what we have done right. And these are now growing. We would have in Biodiversity Park at least 7000 Dhow.

So we feel very very excited about it. It's alive. Almost like for the Aravali rocky terrain.

Yes, it's very special. It's almost like the top of the preserved tiger and everything gets conserved. Absolutely.

Absolutely. This is Bistindu. Bistindu.

And what we also try to do is... Is that Palash Dhak? That's Dhak. And you know what, if you see, we have trees growing between the nurseries. So at any point in time, we move out of this nursery, you will have a jungle out here also.

So we kind of leave behind... So this will not be barren land. It won't be barren land. It will have trees around.

Is that the Delhi border? Yeah, why do you ask? Because there is all... Velayuti Kikad. Yeah, that's Delhi border. And so it's actually India-Pakistan divide.

But we do need a little protection at this time because Delhi border is not fully secured. So there is a huge amount of grazing which takes place. So tell me, how has this area, this forest affected or helped build communities? Has there been some... You know, how are the villagers reacting? Is it good, bad for them? No, it's very interesting.

Because when we started working on this project and we started planting, we had... I mean, I still remember it was about 45 degrees and I was in the middle of somewhere here, which is about a kilometre inside. And I was walking and there was some planting happening and I was standing there. And one of the villagers walked up to me and asked, what is happening here? So I said, we are planting.

And next I knew that this guy had gone to his village, which is close by, and got us chaat. And he said, Madam, you are working in such hot weather. And that was the starting of getting to know villagers around.

You know, that reminds me of a very interesting story. Sorry to interrupt you. Of the water man, Ajinder Singh.

Yes, yes. He was with an organisation, I think, whether it was Tarun Bharat Sangh or before that some organisation, maybe it just joined Tarun Bharat Sangh. And I remember reading that somebody came up to him and said, he was thinking of doing something.

What was the story? Yeah, he actually had gone to the villagers to do some good for them. And, you know, he was on this mission to do some good things for the village. And then an old man came and told him that, You want to do good for us, right? Tomorrow morning at 5 o'clock, come here with a bucket.

And that's what Ajinder Singh did. And, you know, he said that basically, we have to conserve water. Absolutely.

And that changed everything for him. He is now one and all. Sorry to interrupt you.

No, no, no, absolutely. And that was the starting of trying to get to know people who you would not meet otherwise in your Indian, now that we are all in urban life. And today, I think the people from villages whose land we are sitting on, they and us interact.

We get invited by them for their children's wedding. So it's very nice because they will, I mean, if you're passing by, you will always, we will greet each other. And I think it would have not been possible.

So it's both sides. It's both sides. At the same time, cutting the fences, sending goats in and cattle in.

And also the other side, people who revere and love the forest. And they come here. I mean, they come here for walks in the morning.

I just saw while coming in two guys doing kushti. And they're using this place as much as we are. And we are, and they kind of feel happy about what has happened to this area.

But I feel that, I mean, I shouldn't say but, but I think it's been, I know, and you know, one of the villagers were telling me, or they were telling me that because of Biodiversity Park, people from four villages, which is next to Biodiversity Park, have met. And he says, this used to happen with our grandparents. Now that we have all spread out, we were never, ever meeting.

But it's because of Biodiversity Park. Because they're coming for walks. Yes, from Chakrapur, Nattupur, Ayanagar.

All of them come here for a walk. Wonderful. And they all together, I think, do bhandara each year.

So I think it's exciting. It's exciting to know that we have connected people. And we have got connected to them.

Social fabric getting connected around the forest also. Absolutely. And we are as much benefiting out of it.

They are including us in their lives, which we would have never got an opportunity. So I do end up going for a lot of marriages. And I do go.

This is that famous Kullu, which is called Ghost Tree. Kullu, excellent. You know, there's this very interesting story.

Vijay had taken us for a walk to Mangar. And while coming back from the other side of Mangar, we visited somebody's house over there. I was driving, Vijay was sitting next to me.

And he suddenly says, stop the car, stop the car. And I said, what happened? So he showed us a tree. Then he said, walked up to the hill.

So it was about, at least about, I'm guessing, about 50 meters away or something. And he calls up Pradeep Kishan and tells him, I have a gift for you. So it seems it was a big Kullu tree.

They aren't many here. According to him, it was the only surviving Kullu tree that they had seen in the Delhi NCR region. Wow.

So out here, we have planted maybe over 200-300 trees. Wonderful. Very difficult to grow, I remember.

I was experimenting with seeds and seed balls. And this is not easy. None of them grew.

Vijay was furious at me for trying to seed them. And it's very beautiful. Beautiful.

So we're inside this greenhouse. So tell us more, please. So these are our beds where we will sow seeds.

And once these saplings start coming out, we take them out. So like all these are saplings from seeds? Yes, these are all coming out. Are they different? No, these are the same.

This is a bigger one. It's growing. And once they come out, we will move them into small bags.

And like you'll see there. So they have been taken out and put it in those bags. And so while taking them out, they don't get spoiled? No, there is a technique to it, of course.

There is a technique to it, which of course Malis know now. And we will take them out, put them into those small bags. And you know, when we plant, you can see out here, the names are there, the dates are mentioned.

So we kind of monitor how many days it has taken for it to sprout. Oh, okay. So all that is tracked.

So all the names have been put. Beautiful. And this keeps changing.

So once some sapling, then another. Absolutely, depending on the season and all. So now they move to the bigger.

They are taken out, put in these plastic bags, then taken out. Then they are kept in for a few months. And then when we realize they are becoming bigger, then they move to the bigger bags.

So I can take you to the other nursery. So we have about two acres of area. Two acres dedicated to the nursery.

So how is it feeling? You know, I was in Almora two years ago, in a beautiful bio resort there called Sona Pani. And we were speaking to Ashish, I think. And he had an opportunity there to, you know, the village panchayat was saying that about 50 acres of land.

And he had called an Australian company to do some digging. So the digging for trees is very fast with that machine or whatever it is. So they were coming to Almora for a demonstration.

And the village panchayat, you know, had allocated that 50 acres of land because he has built a trust with them and all of that. And he was telling me that, Rahul, I feel that this life of mine is over. I mean, all my pilgrimage is over.

So, I mean, just connecting that, how does it feel? I think all of us at I Am Gurgaon feel that we have done something for Gurgaon. And once you come here and you can see the smile on my face, I just feel so excited because we are really leaving behind a legacy. And for our next generation.

And, you know, it's something which has happened because everybody believed in it. I mean, everybody means, it started with the government, the administration helping us out and people of Gurgaon. This wouldn't have been possible if it wasn't their support and funding.

And of course, there is a huge amount of passion gone into it. Have you involved the community? Like you were saying, villagers from around? I know I've been part of the school's plantations. Yes, absolutely.

And all the Malis are living in the next village. We have about 65 Malis. They all come from the next village.

So, it's a source of employment also. Are these permanent people? Full time. We have about 60 odd Malis and four supervisors.

So, they are full time and have been with us. Some of them have been with us forever. I mean, we started five years ago since then.

So, there is about 20-30% have been with us since then. So, here also, within the nursery, there are trees. Yes, there are trees.

So, all our whole intent… Is it heritage? No. No, I don't know. Which tree is this? This is Arjun.

Yes, this is Arjun. So, the nursery is spread all over. And now you can see that these all will be moved.

Slowly to the bigger batch. This is all dhok. So, we have done very well with dhok.

We have really done well with dhok. Yes. So, there is… So, you know, we also have something done with stem.

We get stem cutting. And with stem cutting, we grow… You know, we have… Can you see this sprouting? Yeah, yeah. So, you also do… Get saplings out of stem.

Stem. Wonderful. So, without the seed.

Without the seed. That's salai. That's salai.

That's the… It has an incense. Yes, yes. Yes, absolutely.

Again, it becomes a large tree. We have quite a grown salai out here. Almost all of them have one species somewhere or the other.

We have tried to plant them around. So, you know, at any point in time you want to close this nursery or you want to move it somewhere, the place will be fully planted. Yes.

Great, Latika. Thank you for that wonderful walk the talk kind of introduction to the biodiversity park and your journey. You all shared that how beautiful a journey this has been for you.

Yes, it has been. Any last words? Any message to the listeners of this video? And, you know, I'm hoping that more people see this, get inspired around the country. There are more urban forests or non-urban small forests that come up, you know.

I think what we have been able to achieve is really a public-private partnership. And I personally feel if we really want more and more forests to come like this, this is the only way to do it. You cannot have them running only just by forest or privately.

So, it has to be a partnership. And it's a possibility because this is there. Wonderful.

With that positive note, thank you very much. Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

Thank you.